Sad state of brand bigotry with some U.K dealerships.

Kick back and chat about whatever floats your boat. (Forum rules still apply)
Post Reply
Tim Kernowek 59
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:35 am
Has thanked: 180 times
Been thanked: 126 times

I was saddened by comments made to me by a a top U.K MD retail outlet today. I was assured catagorically that the Fisher Impulse AQ is a failure that will never see fruition, the all new FT single frequency 'new flag-ship' MD (due out this year), is never going to be a success because Nox 800 has rendered all such MDs utterly obsolete. Nokta Makro MDs are All middle of the road performers, hampered by a litany of failings, especially prevalant in the Simplex ( notwithstanding that the early issues of some Simplex coils were re-called as fails, and the company sent out replacement coils that solved the issue), Also, the Nokta Makro continous multi frequency ( also due out this year), will be a non-competitor because it cannot legally employ the level of cutting-edge tech required to be 'up there' with Nox, without massively transgressing Mine Lab patents. It also turns out that Garrett are to be sued by Mine Lab for transgressing said patents with Apex. To say that I felt dismay after I'd wished this person well, and 'put my phone down' would be an understatement. Not so long ago, during a previous enquiry about maybe buying a 19 kHz FT MD, this same person told me that in his opinion, the only MD that was up to competing with a Nox in iron was the self-same 19 kHz FT platform, and that it was far and away better than its FT 19 kHz 'cousin'. This is not the only large U.K dealership that has slurred 'the competition' in my own personal experience. For me? If I have nothing but bad opinions I 'think them', because to voice them is unfair, as well as fraught with other pit-falls: accuracy of opinon being but one. Todays dismay reminded me of Facebook nastiness. I tried Facebook for a while; it is not my 'cuppa tea' :( :?
ScoTTT2
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:18 am
Has thanked: 198 times
Been thanked: 188 times

I had a similar experience with ocyllek...pronounced backwards....on a survey they sent me...I do not know how they got my info as I never have done business with them...one question was, what is the best machine in your opinion...FT wasn't even a choice...when I told them the T2, which was the only detector I could rightfully say anything about...they told me it was a good detector, but not one they would consider....the simplex was a choice though...I didn't own one then.

I will base my opinion on my hunts with my friend who owns a nox 800 (which even according to minelab is not their top performing metal detector)... we hunt together quite a few times each year .. he has about 10 more years detecting than I do .. hunt after hunt, we come out even up ... as far as a trash to treasure ratio per hole is concerned .. his first 800 went back to the shop because it flooded on his first water hunt with it .. with his replacement, he had to send the coil back as the ears broke off....leaving him stranded during his hunt .. both of these problems are fairly common and as far as I know, not addressed by the company .. I will not bash the minelab machine as it is a good one .. but vastly superior it is not .. and as a beginner, I'm not sure I would have taken to detecting like I have if I had started with anything that was harder to learn .. when first looking at detectors, I was bombarded buy sellers wanting to sell me a Nox 800 ... I didn't even know if I was going to like detecting ... in the end and looking back, I made the right buy ... I am kind of partial to 'made in America', though ... if FT puts out a detector that is better than the T2 .. it will be as good as anything out there ... I'm not sure on the patents, but am pretty sure that multi frequency wasn't brought into this world by minelab....I also hunt with a guy who owns the ctx3030...it is impressive the things he can program that machine to do...the machine also looks impressive...still in the end, hunt after hunt, we come out even up...except my shoulder isn't sore...and to think I could buy four T2s for the same price....I am just guessing here, but minelab is doing damage control before anything even gets out there....could you imagine if the new single frequency machine from FT not only was superior to the F75/T2, but also the equinox....then a next year multi frequency unit...best nip it in the bud before it happens....I would be concerned if I was a competitor of FT.
Last edited by ScoTTT2 on Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ScoTTT2
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:18 am
Has thanked: 198 times
Been thanked: 188 times

also forgot to mention the first thing everyone who buys a nox does (or at least should do) ...replace the shaft with an aftermarket carbon fiber one...a major component of every hobby metal detector .
Tim Kernowek 59
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:35 am
Has thanked: 180 times
Been thanked: 126 times

Nice one for that info my friend, your opinions are much respected for their clarity of vision, no nonsense common-sense. You've negated my despondency to a greater degree. If someone doesn't feel 'threatened', there is scant need for uttering derogatory statements with direct reference to perceived competition. A bit like the late Ali with his "I am the greatest", pre-fight rhetoric. He was indeed very good, but obviously not un-beatable...Marciano was more durable, cost less to 'produce' and absolutely Was un-beatable in the same weight domain. I feel a lot less peed now Scott. I detest those that seek to put down others, especially to 'outsiders' like myself: more so when those that they condemn aren't on the scene to respond. Bad form. Thank you Scott, you are a good'un for me.
ScoTTT2
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:18 am
Has thanked: 198 times
Been thanked: 188 times

for sure, Tim .. the market will show superiority .. no need for anyone to say anything, unless they have a feeling they may not control the market like they have become accustomed to .. there will always be brand loyal guys out there .. but the competition is good for the hobby .. we are soon to see if the notka macro simplex really brings many to buy their better machines .. there will be notka macro loyalist .. but, I think, we are seeing an even further divide to a model specific loyalist, based this time solely on a bang for buck mindset .. still, on reading some comments on various youtube channels, there are many who say the atpro is the best detector ever made .. and then there are those who say, they have hunted this place for years with many detectors, hunted it clean, but I bought this new X brand and went back over this hunted out place and found this great widget .. inferring it was because of the superiority of the new machine .. when anyone who has been around a bit and has some degree of understanding realizes there were many conditions that lead to that retrieval ... many, if not most, of my finds could have been made with a lessor detector .. the fringe targets I find are one of the reasons that make the T2 for me .. am I missing some, yea probably .. would I be missing the same ones with any other detector?...yea probably...are my friends finding more with their detector....no, not necessarily...and that is what it comes down to for me.

I've been watching the videos with the guys testing the AQ impulse...some guys really learned how it works and what to do with it ... they are killing the gold at the beaches...unreal this machine in their hands...there are others who didn't take the time to learn it and put it down as not for them...there are two or three guys that haven't even held one in their hand already saying it is no good...once that machine is out there the beach hunters will follow...I haven't held one but am already thinking of vacations on the treasure coast...think about who the maker of the machines that have been dominating that stretch of beach for the past bunch of years are...yep, minelab....I would be worried if that was my company and all of a sudden the impulse was being introduced. There is a lot more to it and I maybe way off base...and with the collapse of whites and tesoro...there are many things to be worried about if you are a manufacturer and FB like attacks seem to work in this day and age.
User avatar
TheHunterGT
Site Admin
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:13 pm
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 138 times

Well, seeing as how Fisher are sending me the final version of the Impulse to test and review - I would consider that guys knowledge of the truth as enough to fill a thimble and not much else.

The Simplex outsells the Nox and Vanquish 8-1 here in the states - both foreign companies. I will assume it is that way in the rest of the world as well. Cost alone drives many away from the Nox 800....and the Vanquish being bright red is a turn off for many. I have had numerous customers tell me they want the Simplex because it is black - and they "would have" bought the Vanquish instead - if it was black as well.

I'm not a patent lawyer - but know enough to realize Minelab will not be winning any major case against Garrett in international court. Saying you have a patent for multi-frequency is like saying you have a patent for cola. As long as the flavor is tweaked a bit - ingredients tweaked - wording of patent tweaked - all is well.

As with most patents - small changes matter. If Garrett can prove a 1MS delay built in somewhere...that will likely be enough to consider it a different electronic working entirely. There is always a way to break a patent legally...and it is usually easy.
Image
ScoTTT2
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:18 am
Has thanked: 198 times
Been thanked: 188 times

can't wait to see the HunterGT's review of the impulse...and the final 'looks'
Tim Kernowek 59
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:35 am
Has thanked: 180 times
Been thanked: 126 times

My thanks to you both, for setting the record straight. I had previously been appraised as to the actual facts regarding the patent issues, so I was aware that there was no 'air-tight' clause that gave Mine Lab sole power 'uber alles' competitors, in this particular domain. To hear otherwise, from someone who has been at the helm of a business that has its origins as long ago as the late 60's, came as a particularly un-pleasant shock. The rest of the content from that person's scathing tirade, as you might imagine, gave rise to my post. Such a sad shame. Brand bigotry of the highest order. I shall refrain from further mention of this incident, 'out of house', so this matter, as well as any further dealings with the company concered will be 'buried', gone and gone. I shall now be particularly keen to watch, and listen to, John's reviews of the Impulse AQ, the new Fisher Single Frequency, and Nokta Makro's Simultaneous Multi Frequency machine, as and when they materialise. I rather fancy that not all may share those sentiments.
Post Reply