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a 'new tech' question


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after running the T2 in all metal for most of this year, I get to wondering on all the 'new tech' being introduced to the metal detectors. Seeing how the discrimination side hampers the full performance of my detector, noticeably, is this true of all detectors? Do all detectors run better in all metal mode and .. is all the 'new tech' aimed at trying to make a detector just as good when it's run in discrimination as it would be running the all metal? Has there really been new tech that actually makes a detector run deeper and separate better or is it just when the detector is running in some form of discrimination mode, trying to make it more like or closer to the same as running the all metal mode?


I understand the reason most run some form of discrimination and/or notch...and also that there are places where it just doesn't matter and there may not be the need to run unfiltered...I'm trying to get the most from my detecting and I think I'm headed in the right direction...and I know what I may think is the 'most' pertaining to detector ability, may not apply to others.

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All detecotrs definitely do not run better in all-metal mode. The Gold Kruzer is one of them. Strange for a gold detector honestly. The Nox and Anfibio both air test just as well in all-metal. I have not tested in dirt. Some Minelabs like the Equinox and CTX have threshold hums in discrimination modes, so I would say yes they are trying to get an all-in-one type package going.


The T2 might be deeper at disc 50-59 than in all-metal...not sure though.

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I lack the collective/numerical experience with machines Scott, so I'm unable to help you with any advice. I am very patient, so I prefer to really lay off the 'hype' trail, do an awful lot of research, using the collective experience and guidance from a limited number of bona fide, highly reputable metal detectorists before finally making a choice of purchase. Once done, I keep the selected machine/s for years. I eventually harmonise with the machine/s and become more proficient with it/them; time being of the essence, for me. I enjoy hunting in AM, but onlywhere applicable (especially so in the past with analogue machines). But as to the multitude of machines available? I have no idea as to their comparative proficiency, or lack of. betwixt all metal and discrimination.. I wish I could be of more help, but unfortunately that is beyond me in this instance. I so hope that the new FT single frequency gets top marks from John, Keith, and Todd when it eventually 'hits the streets', so too the Nokta Makro Continuous Multi Frequency. If they do, I will invest in them. First Texas make superb machines, and Nokta Makro are right up there too. For me, after all I've heard from many users, the Nox is excellent for the tech, but absolutely not for durability in tough terrains; they suffer component failure, which is unacceptable for their price tag, imo, whereas Nokta Makro make excellent machines that are 'Tough as a Turk'. It'll be great to utilise their respective All Metal capabilities. Perhaps then I may have the knowledge to be more helpful in future, if asked again by someone.... John's yer man for sure.
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Well this week's been a washout, yesterday being the only day without rain...lawn mowing day...and today back to rain .. so I did some indoor testing with the T2, swinging some rings and things with the coil on the table. listening to the sounds and checking the TIDs .. running both sides at 50 sensitivity .. I checked out the 51 disc, compared to the all metal side .. they both run real close with the same TID up until about 10 inches, more or less, depending on what the target was, then the TIDs would jump all over, in either mode, making it impossible to predict just what was under the coil .. at about 15 inches the dics side would only pick up an intermittent chirp or blip .. where the all metal would have a solid hit .. somewhere around the 18 inch mark the all metal side would only have a threshold break .. which went to about 24 inches before disappearing .. one thing I found out was that by turning the hum level two clicks to the negative from zero .. it picked up things in the 15+ inch range much more solidly than at the one click to the positive .. a slight hum, as suggested in the manual .. where I've been running it .. I will be testing that in the field, as it was noticeable.
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Ha! Weather's much the same this side of the big pond. Managed to mow the lawns yesterday before more rain arrived early hours; it's raining still and forecast to run into tomorrow. Tis good for the plants and most wild-life, plus it'll soften the ground....Your testing is interesting for sure, in that I always set my analogues a tad on the negative, so your reference to improved audio by going slightly neg on a digi MD came as co-incidental........ someone's called at mine just Scott, so I'll get back to you dreckly..........................................
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..............right, back again! It wll be very interesting to hear how your 'in soil' tests pan out... As you will probably remember from earlier chats, I had a few years 'cutting my teeth' on some of the old-styley analogue machines, starting with XP ADX 150 (pre-set GB), and culminating with the Tejon ( critically important to accurately GB). You may remember that I never use any Quick Ground-Grab trigger assisted GB'ing, preferring at all times to set GB manually. Here's why. 'Old Habits Die Hard'.. With Tejon yada yada, I'd go to AM, set threshold, pump coil up 8"ish, down 7" , manually turn GB until equal tonal balance was made on both up, and down srtokes...to all intents and purposes GB was perfect....Now, here's the craic; On the advice of the man I harken back to occasionally ( now sadly passed ), from my 'newbie-ish' days, I was told to keep pumping coil at the usual rate and distance, only this time, as I lowered the coil to 1" on the down pump, I must now whip the coil briskly upwards, straight and clean for the mandatory distance; I did this as instructed, and now, lo and behold, I could definitely hear a slight tone on the up-stroke; so even though my ears were initially telling me the machine was GB'ing perfectly using the usual method, it wasn't actually 'cock-on', because there was infact an actual audible 'negative' response when the coil was lifted sharply! ..A miniscule re-adjustment of GB to positive negated that tiny negative response and 'perfect' tonal GB was accomplished. however this had a detrimental effect, as the machine became too chatty, and sounded off on 'bitty iron'....I reported my findings over the phone and was duly instructed to always adjust the GB knob to give a small turn negative, on all further initial manual GB'ing sequences: Doing so stopped all previous 'chattiness' and occasional 'sounding off' on 'bitty iron', plus it gave me an extra 1/2"-1" increase in depth (depending on the dirt), and noticeably better tonal quality IN DISC mode. My Tejon was now a pleasure to own and use, with none of the side-effects that other owners whinged about, or quite simply gave up on, and sold their Tejons on because of! .... It may seem 'arse about face', Scott, but it worked wonderfully well with my U.K spec Tejon..... I wonder if you have dropped on a similar scenario, applicable to hunting in AM??? As you say, you need to do 'in soil' tests, ( a good number too), mainly because FT say, in the F75 owners guide ( same 13 kHz as T2), that more experienced owners often prefer to set the machine's GB a tad on the positive side...perhaps this only applies to hunting in disc modes per se?..I've always just done a manual GB and 'got on with it' in both Disc and AM.... It'll be great if you've hit on a 'stunner' Scott! Please keep us posted.
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I didn't adjust the ground balance at all for these tests as it was in the house .. that was something I was thinking about if the ground balance would effect this finding .. but I ran GB at the preset 90 .. I usually manually ground balance when I'm hunting and try to keep it pretty neutral or a tad to the push side and running in the all metal it is easier to hear if it gets away from you.


I was trying to see if I raised the hum level I also gained any depth.. I have been running it just one click above the preset zero, as suggested in the manual .. just a mosquito buzz in the background sound .. turning it to the positive past the one click made no noticeable difference, except in volume ..I went up until the +2 .. so I turned it one click to the negative, nothing different, then I turned it another and it made a noticeable difference in how hard the targets hit .. so I tried it another click and that seemed to revert back to the same as one click .. I tried it a few more clicks until about -2 and found no difference


should be a fun real hunting test .. and I'm really not sure how I will be able to tell just what is going on, without some sort of test garden .. which I'm not sure I wan tot go through the effort of making .. but I have something to play around with now.

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Sorry Scott, i got cross-wired. Duh! You were referring to threshold settings affecting depth in AM. Mind you, GB and Thresh do play off one another, particularly so on 7 kHz plus machines. Finding the harmony twix those variables is key...Experimenting and doing the 'hard-yards' always pays dividends, but the practices involved are individualistic I believe. Finding what is best for your type of testing is key. Many are anti 'in air testing', so too 'in soil testing' ( unless, the soils where you hunt are very much of a sameness, I can understand why). I suppose that you could fill a large, deep plastic or wooden crate with soil, put in delrin pipes at varying depths ......the list is long and boring and arduous. UGH!.. For me, I'd just dig a slit-trench of 18" -24" wide, about 36" long and make it say 30" deep, in a part of your garden that is 'out of the way'; perhaps on a fence-line/hedge-line. Once done you could make small, very thin slits, say 8"s deep into the side-wall of the small trench,at measured depths, by pushing in a thin, straight, flat-ended knife blade, then simply tape a small silver coin to a wooden or plastic ruler and carefully push it into the measured depth slits? That's the quickest type of realistic ' in soil test' garden of them all. Realistic because the soil is in it's natural undisturbed state of compaction, and un-altered state of mineralisation, plus, it's quickest because of it's sheer ease of construction, with the obvious joy of not needing to dig loads of holes to certain depths all over the place!. I suppose that if you wanted to mix things up a bit, you could push some rusty, crusty, square nails of varying sizes ..yada yada, hither and thither. After testing is complete, you could put a couple of paving slabs etc on top of the trench, with maybe a flower pot or such on them. that way it'd be safe, un-obtrusive and secure if you liked the idea, and chose to retain it for future use. food for thought? ;)
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thanks Tim .. I will try those suggestions, and play around a bit.


When I first decided I wanted to try my hand at metal detecting, I spent a lot of time thinking of what machine I thought would be best for my ideas of what I expected metal detecting would deliver .. I seriously had my mind set on a tejon .. it was more than I expected to spend on my first machine, though .. but then I won on a lottery scratcher and was about to pull the trigger on the Tejon, when Tesoro shut their doors .. another guy from your side of the pond suggested Teknetics .. they had the T2+ bundled with a digger and tekpoint .. for less than the Tejon .. so that brought me to buying that bundle .. I then found a few places where the EMI was to much for the T2+, so much so that it couldn't be run in those places .. so with my clad findings I bought the T2se

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You made the correct decision for choosing T2 over Tejon Scott. Tesoro ads for Tejon, all came with the caveat that Tejon was manufactured specifically with the more experienced detectorist in mind. Tejon was massively over-powered, it's dual circuitry electronics came directly from those used on the Mk1 Abrams MBT. Anyone that set Gain above 7 with the 5x10" DD, or above 3-4 with the superb 10x12 DD coil/s, respectively (out of a posibble 10 Gain setting, plus 'red-band'), were in for 'trouble', unless they were hunting Very Low mineralisation pasture...or on a snow-field! Best way to find out if a purported Tejon owner is bona fide? Ask them what is the first adjustment that needs to be made with Tejon? If they tell you that all the potentiometer knobs have to be removed, have correctly sized nitrile 'O' rings fitted to their splines before replacing them with sufficient downward pressure to cause the bases of the knobs to push up relatively tightly to the 'O' rings, before the grub screws that hold the knobs in place on their splines are firmy fitted, they are/have been experienced, bona fide, Tejon users. Simple as that, plus references to Gain settings, and best search coils for Tejon. Simple as that Scott. If they fail on those counts, my advice is to take their word regarding Tejon with a wheel-barrow full of salt. The U.K spec 'Black Stem' Tejons had a very wide iron discrimination band, un-like the U.S Tejons' compressed iron disc range. This very wide range iron discrimination 'difference' changed the U.K spec Tejon into a brilliant tiny, thin sectioned, coin finder, even on the worse iron infested ancient habitation sites. Tejon was an 'Animal', there's no 'dancing' around that fact, but set it up minutely, utilising setting knobs that absolutely stayed firmly in position, learn it's ways, apply it's power sensibly and correctly, LISTEN to the advice of real experience, if one was fortunate enough to meet such folk, and all would be good!
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